Podcast: Late summer theatre roundup

Plus, an interview with DCPA Off-Center’s Charlie Miller about Sweet & Lucky: Echo

In this episode of the OnStage Colorado Podcast, hosts Alex Miller and Toni Tresca return with a bonus episode packed with show reviews, industry news and an exclusive look at one of Denver’s most anticipated immersive theater experiences. From Shakespeare under the stars in Boulder to a notorious female pirate, we also look at some sobering news about the challenges facing small-town movie theaters.

Charlie Miller

Later in the episode, Alex interviews DCPA Off-Center Executive Director/Curator Charlie Miller about the upcoming production of Sweet & Lucky: Echo.

Chapter Summary

Chapter 1: What We’ve Been Watching

Alex’s Theatre Weekend:

• The Play That Goes Wrong from Shark Box Theater (StageDoor Theater, Conifer)
  • Strong recommendation despite no formal review
  • Comedy that delivers when executed well
• The Tempest at Colorado Shakespeare Festival (final performance)
  • Rare opportunity to see show at end of run vs. opening weekend
  • Musical interpretation with female Prospero/a
  • Flawless execution after summer-long run

Toni’s Diverse Theater Week:

• Legend of Anne Bonny rehearsal (Shifted Lens + Two-Cent Lion)
  • New musical by Emmy McGuire about 18th century pirate
  • World premiere of years-long development project
  • Historical accuracy meets shanty-inspired score
• Phantom of the Opera (1925) with live Corchistra Orchestra score at Mayan Theater
  • Unique experience combining silent film with original rock score
  • Sold-out performance with unexpectedly young audience
  • Live recording session for future home viewing
• Pippin at Family Theatre Company (DCPA Kilstrom Theater)
  • Strong production of challenging material
  • Personal critique of show’s disparate elements and outdated book
  • Quality execution that couldn’t overcome source material issues
• Motus Theater’s DACA recipient performance
  • Social justice theater combining storytelling with community dialogue
  • Law enforcement participation in immigrant rights education
  • Powerful blend of entertainment and activism

Additional Rehearsal Coverage:

• Join or Die (zombie show)
• Embers, Petals, and Stars (three-act dance/aerial performance)

Chapter 3: Industry News & Challenges

SCFD Leadership Change:

• Andrea Albo named new Executive Director of Scientific and Cultural Facilities District
• 27 years public service experience
• Focus on accessibility and people-centered leadership
• Important funding source for Colorado arts organizations

Movie Theater Crisis:

• Denver Film Festival loses AMC venue due to big rental fee increase
• National box office down 11% in brutal entertainment landscape
• Case study: Historic Park Theater in Estes Park facing closure
  • Studios taking 60-65% of ticket sales
  • Restrictive licensing requirements for small theaters
  • “Clean play” requirements impossible for single-screen venues
  • Oldest single-screen theater in US potentially closing

Upcoming Season Announcements:

• Aurora Fox Art Center season reveal + new auditorium seating (September 6)
• Phamaly Theater Company season announcement (September 7)
• Arvada Center’s The Mouse Trap all-star cast announcement

Chapter 4: Featured Interview – Sweet and Lucky Echo

Guest: Charlie Miller, Executive Director/Curator, DCPA Off Center

Key Discussion Points:

• 15th anniversary of Off-Center coinciding with Sweet and Lucky return
• Evolution from 2016 original to 2025 “Echo” version
• Shift from individual/solitary experience to community-focused narrative
• Venue upgrade from dirty warehouse to proper retail space with infrastructure
• Audience capacity increase (72 to 200) while maintaining intimacy
• Immersive theater landscape changes and audience expectations
• Production challenges: logistics, costs, and artistic vision balance

Sweet and Lucky: Echo details:

• August 13 – October 5, 2025
• Broadway Park Building, 407 South Broadway
• Single-space transformation vs. multi-room journey
• Community participation in set construction and story revelation
• Themes of grief, memory and collective support

Upcoming episodes:

• Sound designer Jason Ducat interview
• Scenic designer Brian Mulgrave interview

Upcoming reviews on the website:

• Pippin (Phamaly Theater) – Matthew Schultz
• Margaritaville (Silverthorne) – Kim Nicoletti
• Tuesdays with Morrie (Colorado Springs) – Judith Sears
• Assassins (Miners Alley) – Alice Kaderlin

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Transcript

Meticulously crafted by AI fruitbats; take it all with a grain o’ salt.

Alex Miller (00:02)

Hey, hey, hello and welcome to the OnStage Colorado podcast. Once again, I’m Alex Miller.

Toni Tresca (00:08)

And I’m Tony Tresca.

Alex Miller (00:10)

And so this is one of our bonus episodes. So we decided a few months ago that we were going to take every other week off and just either do nothing or do something light. So there’s no headliners or main topic this week, but we will be breaking down some of the shows we’ve seen recently and talking through some news in the arts world.

And then I’ll share the conversation that I had with Charlie Miller from DCPA Off Center and their upcoming production of Sweet and Lucky Echo, which is an immersive thing that’s coming that we’ve talked about a little bit before, right, Tony?

Toni Tresca (00:41)

That’s right, yeah, it’s a kind of a spiritual kind of sequel or I guess I shouldn’t say sequel. They don’t want you saying sequel or prequel, anything around this. It’s a companion piece or a sibling to 2016’s Sweet and Lucky, which the DCPA Off Center did in collaboration with Third Rail Projects. I got to check out a rehearsal and I’ll be there this Saturday to check out the opening night, which I believe you will be as well.

Alex Miller (01:09)

I believe so. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you, even though I’ve, I had a Q and a with a couple of the directors and this conversation with Charlie Miller, I’m still not 100 % sure what happens when you walk through the door. Do you have a better idea of what, what we can tell people what to expect?

Toni Tresca (01:26)

Yeah, so when you walk through the door, you’re going to be walking into what is essentially this kind of attic-like space. It’s going to be mostly empty when you enter. And the only context that you will be given as an audience member is that two members of your community have passed away. And then the piece itself is kind of unboxing their collection, their past objects from their life, and using these objects and these

to bring to life little vignettes from this couple’s life. And so you’re kind of working through your grief over the loss of these two members of the community while also celebrating their life and what they did.

Alex Miller (02:08)

Okay, all right, so you’re looking at some of the video and the photos, it looks like there’s a lot of construction going on and movement and things like that.

Toni Tresca (02:17)

definitely looks to be a very tactile piece. ⁓ You are invited throughout to help them move the set. There’s lots of boxes and moving wall parts and like even a sail that you help raise in the middle of it to help enact a scene. So definitely expect, if you want to interact, there are lots and lots of opportunities to do so. But for someone like your wife, Jen, who doesn’t like that as much,

Alex Miller (02:43)

Ha ha ha!

Toni Tresca (02:44)

I was told that you don’t have to interact if you don’t want to.

Alex Miller (02:47)

Okay, yeah, yeah, I don’t know. It might be Andy that comes with me on that one, but we’ll see.

Toni Tresca (02:57)

Absolutely. So what have you seen on stage since our last episode, Alex?

Alex Miller (03:02)

Well, I had a very unusual weekend of theater because I saw two shows that I didn’t have to review. Normally, you know, we go to shows and you’ve got the homework the next day to write the review. But this one, so the first one was The Play That Goes Wrong, Shark Box Theater up at Stage Door Theater in Conifer. And, this is show I’ve seen at least twice, maybe three times, but my son Andy loves it. And I was like, well, do you want to go? And he’s like, sure. So we made the check up to Conifer. the ⁓

Toni Tresca (03:10)

⁓

Mm-hmm.

Alex Miller (03:32)

the assistant, I guess the artistic director, think his name is Brian or Mark, asked me not to review it. said, it just makes people nervous and if they know they’re gonna get reviewed and stuff. And I was like, I’ve never had anybody ask me that before. Generally speaking, if, know, and it was a good show. wasn’t like, you know, it wasn’t like he was trying to head off the pass on something that he didn’t think was ready to go up. So.

So I know that, of course I honor that, but I will review it to the extent that I will say it’s a damn good show. It’s a funny script. I would say it’s the kind of thing where if you can get all the business of the things falling correct and just remember your lines, you can’t go wrong with this show. It’s a very funny script and it’s a lot of fun. So anyway, yeah, that’s Shark Box Theater. I think they got two more weekends of it.

Toni Tresca (04:25)

Interesting, yeah, I can honestly say I’ve never had anybody tell me before coming to, like, before seeing the show or while I was there not to review it. Now, I definitely have had some people who maybe after my review has been published was maybe wishing I hadn’t reviewed it, but that’s another story.

Alex Miller (04:37)

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Yeah,

I think I’ve never really gotten that request, but we have, I know you and I have both done ⁓ self edited and said like, we’re just not going to review this because there’s just just not, yeah, it’s very rare that that happens, but sometimes it’s just like, you know.

Toni Tresca (04:58)

Sometimes it’s just not ready for prime time.

Alex Miller (05:00)

Exactly. Yeah. And then the other show that I saw on the very last day of the Colorado Shakespeare Festival, the very last show, got out and saw The Tempest last night. So Sunday night. Because it is one of my favorite Shakespeare’s and also you’d reviewed it so strongly. And I was like, man, I got to go see this. And of course, it was worth it.

Toni Tresca (05:20)

good, okay, that was gonna be my next question was, did it live up to my review?

Alex Miller (05:25)

Yeah, the other thing that was interesting is cause you know, we almost always go to opening weekends, you know, just so we can do a review. And so I’ve hardly ever see a show this late in its run. And of course the shows, you know, the very last show along summer long run is like, you know, they have got it down. So, so it was kind of fun to watch something so incredibly smooth and, ⁓ you know, you know, just, just flawless production.

And it is a really fun representation of it. It’s a very musical, as you pointed out, which is not necessarily as written. But yeah, definitely some interesting casting. Of course, we have a female, Prospero Prospera. And Ariel is a guy, which is interesting, and he’s the one that led all the music and played the guitar and stuff.

Toni Tresca (06:13)

Mm-hmm.

And I mean, I believe in the, I mean, obviously in the original production in Shakespeare’s time, would have been a guy, but Ariel has traditionally been interpreted as a male figure until more recently. That’s a more modern ⁓ understanding of the character that has been placed on it.

Alex Miller (06:35)

Okay, yeah, I guess, you that makes sense. But maybe it’s because I’ve seen the Little Mermaid 7000 times that I just think, you know, Arielle’s got to be a girl. So anyway, what’d she get out to see this weekend?

Toni Tresca (06:41)

Hahaha

So I had an interesting mix of rehearsal rooms that I sat in as well as live performances that I attended. First up for me was I went to the Legend of Anne Bonny’s rehearsal. This is a new musical being produced in collaboration by Shifted Lens Theater Company, who is a new company based out of Aurora. They now have a space over in the Aurora Arts District. It’s in the Old Bank.

that’s directly across the street from the Aurora Fox Art Center. That’s where they were rehearsing in. It’s as new as of February this year, which is super exciting over there for them, obviously. And then Two-cent Lion Theater Company, which is a nomadic troupe by, was started by three DU students. We’ve talked about their work on this podcast a number of times. And this is a new musical written ⁓ by Emmy McGuire. And it’s this pirate show. It’s about

Anne, who is an 18th century housewife who enters piracy near the end of it. And it’s really just a, it looks like a really funny show. I got to sit in on the opening number, which was just this very spirited ensemble number with lots of site gags. ⁓ And Emmy has been working on this show for years. She started it when she was a teenager and she was inspired by this album that referenced the real life historical figure of Anne Bonny.

And she worked on it all throughout her undergrad, did a staged reading at a new works festival with Shifted Lens last year, continued revising, and now here it is about to make its world premiere coming up later this month.

Alex Miller (08:30)

That’s cool. I kind of knew about this character from watching the Netflix show Black Sails that Anne Bonney is one of the characters on that show, which is a real schlocky show, but fun to watch.

Toni Tresca (08:36)

Sure.

Yeah, really, it was fun to ask Emmy about all the pirate stuff and the research that she did because she really went into like, it was a part of her, she ended up doing this as her thesis project. So she had to turn in all of the historical research that she did on the show. So it’s just seeping with historical accuracy as well as also having a really fun kind of shanty inspired score that they composed.

Alex Miller (09:08)

Great. Yeah, I’m hoping to get out to see that.

Toni Tresca (09:12)

Yeah. Next up was for me was a show of sorts. It was a film version of the Phantom of the Opera, the silent film from 1925 that was playing at the Mayan theater. However, it wasn’t just a showing of that silent film. It also featured an original score that was played live by the Corchistra Orchestra, who is this group locally who composes original

Alex Miller (09:23)

wow.

Toni Tresca (09:40)

kind of rock and roll inspired scores to classic films like Nosferatu and Metropolis. And then they perform them and record them live. So the recording of the Phantom of the Opera, were making that at the thing I was at. And so you can now listen to the actual recording they made. when you watch the Phantom of the Opera at home, it was such an incredible experience. It was completely sold out. There was not a seat empty in the house really.

And I was kind of expecting it to be an older crowd, given that it was a silent film from the 1920s. But it was a lot of people my age and like their 20s and 30s who would come out to the MIND Theater on a Thursday night to check out this repertory screening of the Phantom of the Opera with an orchestra.

Alex Miller (10:13)

Mm-hmm.

Wow, that sounds really interesting. And do we know whether they’re going to be doing it again or doing another show coming up or anything like that?

Toni Tresca (10:34)

I do they actually so they sold out this performance ahead of time and so before the show they actually announced That they were going to be doing an encore screening of it on September 4th So if you missed this one didn’t know about it or just it had sold out before you could get tickets You do have another opportunity coming up at the start of September

Alex Miller (10:56)

Okay, cool.

Toni Tresca (10:59)

I also got out to see ⁓ Family Theatre Company’s production of Pippin. This is a musical that I had never seen before, so this was my first time checking it out. Also, like you, it was kind of fun. was not going for work. I was just going with a group of friends who all wanted to check out this production. So I went kind of for fun.

And this is a family did a very good job with it as they usually do. It’s at the DCPA and the Kielstrom Theater in the round. Lots of very funny gags in the show that really lean into the disabilities of the performers and really creative ways. But I cannot say that I’m a fan of Pippin the musical. I found it to be deeply odd. And particularly in the second act, it’s this story about the son of Charlemagne.

Alex Miller (11:45)

Ha ha ha ha!

Toni Tresca (11:53)

Kind of, but it’s also got a circus framing device and also it’s about Colts who want to burn you alive and so it’s a lot of disparate elements that I would say as an outsider looking in on this for the first time Didn’t all work for me, but the show was pretty fun I would say this is more of an issue with the story and the songs themselves rather than families production Because I mean Robert Michael Sanders and the team

Alex Miller (11:54)

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Toni Tresca (12:22)

did a really good job with what was written. It’s just, ⁓ it was strange. Have you seen Pippin before?

Alex Miller (12:30)

Yeah, I think we talked about this. saw it a million years ago, but I was just looking. Matthew, yeah, one of my first Broadway shows, but ⁓ Matthew Schultz reviewed it for Onstage Colorado. haven’t posted it yet, but he kind of said the same thing. said, he said, I left the theater asking myself, is it possible to love the work of a company and respect the work of actors while still having a less than magical evening of theater? And he was like, yes, you know, the show’s book felt outdated and didn’t quite translate to a modern performance.

Toni Tresca (12:33)

Right, was your- That’s right. Your-

Alex Miller (12:58)

And overall, show lacked the magical moments that audiences seek is what he said.

Toni Tresca (13:05)

Well, ⁓ consider this a cosign. I thought that, yeah, was a strange experience as an audience member because I, like he noted, I respected the work but did not really enjoy the show.

Alex Miller (13:19)

Yeah, PIPPIN is a valid crossword word also, if you ever, you know.

Toni Tresca (13:26)

If you’re ever in need, if you’re ever making a crossword.

Alex Miller (13:27)

Yeah,

what else?

Toni Tresca (13:33)

I also got out to my final performance of the weekend was Modus Theater’s art opening and performance and a community dialogue with the Boulder County District Attorney and other law enforcement officers. So this was my first time getting out to see a Modus show. They are kind of a social justice theater. This particular performance was using monologues written by DACA recipients who are here in the U.S.

of sharing their story and co-reading them aloud, in this case with the Boulder District Attorney and the former Chief of Police. And it just is a really powerful show to have these law enforcement agents next to somebody who is a DACA recipient on stage, all sharing in that moment of truth and reveling in the humanity of it. mean, Christian shared in the piece about how he and his sister and his mom all crossed the border together.

Alex Miller (14:18)

Yeah.

Toni Tresca (14:27)

And then the real fears that his sister felt, because she was born in the US, ⁓ and about how her family all getting deported under the Trump administration and her being left here alone. And I think when you really have to consider the humanity of it, it really just makes the policies just all the more hard to stomach and makes you want to take action, which was exactly the point of this. It was followed up after that reading by a know your rights training that you could do. ⁓

that you could do and listen to about what are the immigrants’ rights, how should you as an ally respond when ICE shows up, all led by the district attorney and immigration lawyer and the chief of police. So you were really getting it straight from the source. And like I said, it really showed ⁓ that Boulder County is committed to upholding the rights of immigrants, even in this troubling time.

Alex Miller (15:18)

At least

somebody is. know, a lot of times when I look at Modus’ ⁓ lineup, I just think, ⁓ that sounds like eating, you know, having to eat your peas or broccoli or something like that. You know, was it entertaining? Was it fun at all or just kind of heavy duty or what?

Toni Tresca (15:34)

The story was very entertaining. It was really well written and well read. I wouldn’t call it a performance. It’s a reading. And so the focus really is on that story. And I think, well, I won’t call the Know Your Rights training fun by any means. ⁓ The story section was entertaining and it was incredibly informative and very relevant, exactly.

Alex Miller (15:42)

Right.

but relevant.

You also had ⁓ you saw a rehearsal of joint or die. What’s that?

Toni Tresca (16:02)

Join or die, this is the guy who you spoke to on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, the zombie show about democracy.

Alex Miller (16:09)

⁓ right, right, Right. How did

the rehearsal look?

Toni Tresca (16:15)

I mean, it looked like a lot of zombie fun. There is, it’s a cast of 16 people, which is pretty big for any show being produced in 2025 now. And so they’re actually, at least it looked like from rehearsal, able to kind of create the zombie horde effect rather convincingly, because they actually do have a mass of people on stage able to chase the humans around.

Alex Miller (16:18)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. And then you saw another rehearsal, embers, pedals, and stars. What’s that one?

Toni Tresca (16:45)

This is a dance show. I went over to the Boulder Circus Center and checked this out. It’s a dance show in three acts. The first act is inspired by this woman’s experience living through the Louisville fires and losing her home and kind of how the grief that she’s still processing in this moment. The second act is about petals. It’s about this cherry blossom and the cycle of life ⁓ that that usually represents. And the final act is about Star Wars. And it’s just a

Alex Miller (17:00)

wow.

Toni Tresca (17:15)

a fun, dumb kind of cantina romp. All very different, all very ⁓ kind of, they’re not trying to connect them at all. They literally just take breaks in between. And the real reason to watch is they are doing all of these really complicated aerial movements throughout it. It’s an aerial as well as a dance piece. And so,

They have all these really impressive technical partner sequences in which they’re throwing each other around up in the air on these rigs that they have. And so it’s an interesting piece. not sure how I feel about combining all three of these elements together quite like this. It feels more like kind of just you’re going to a student recital and you’re watching three different works. I mean, that’s really what it is. But they’ve decided to bundle them all for this case.

Alex Miller (17:55)

⁓ huh. Yeah.

Okay, so, you know, it’s not typical that arts journalists would go to rehearsals. mean, a lot of times theaters would prefer you don’t. So what’s up with you going out to rehearsals? What’s going on there?

Toni Tresca (18:20)

Well, I guess I have kind of been going to rehearsals for a little while now. ⁓ I particularly when their show, their new works and they don’t have any photos. And so I kind of am like, so do you have any photos? They tell me, no, they won’t have any photos until like the day they open. And I’m like, that’s really not going to work if you want this to come out ahead of time. And so.

Alex Miller (18:40)

Mm-hmm.

Toni Tresca (18:45)

I go and it’s largely to take photos, but I also do find that just being in the room and getting a sense of the energy and the vibe of the piece is very helpful in my writing and making sure that it’s reflective of what the actual experience is going to be rather than just reading the press release for a new show that I don’t have because often new shows they will not send me a script. So I can’t get a vibe from that and I just have to trust them. And you and I both know that press releases sometimes

do not match the vibe of the show at all.

Alex Miller (19:18)

Yeah, yeah, well that’s interesting because yeah, like I said, I mean, of course you’re not reviewing it, ⁓ but you’re getting some information about it for the preview ⁓ and seeing seeing that different side of, you know, the other side of the production and everybody else sees.

Toni Tresca (19:35)

Absolutely. think also for for new shows or more experimental shows or immersive things It really can be hard to get your hands around what it is Unless you’re actually in the room and you can kind of watch it like for instance You saying that just talking to Charlie Miller about sweet and lucky is not the same as me going in the room and getting to see some of the scenes because I get I get to see how what that actually looks like in practice rather than just kind of

reading about it or even just talking because sometimes people, it’s interesting, sometimes artists I would say don’t always know the best way to describe their own work.

Alex Miller (20:13)

That’s true. And immersive especially, you know, and I think to some degree they’re hesitant to say too much about it because I think there’s a little bit of a surprise element, you know, being a little uncomfortable I think can often be part of an immersive work and you don’t necessarily want to give the whole thing away. you know, it’s also true that a lot of people really want to know that before they buy a ticket.

Toni Tresca (20:35)

100 % and I often coordinate with the people who like the people who I’m writing the pieces about because I’m not my goal is not to reveal any spoilers about the narrative so sometimes they may say something and Where they’re like, oh crap that will kind of that might break if people go in knowing this element For instance this happened with sweet and lucky it might break the experience and so I just kind of hold that information close to my chest and don’t share that if because again, my goal is not to make

is not to substitute you actually going to see it. I think you should go see Sweet and Lucky. However, I think it also, you do need more information than they give on the website in order to make an informed decision.

Alex Miller (21:16)

Right. I’ll speak in a photo. I going to put on my marketing hat for one second here and tell theaters that if you have the opportunity to stick one or two characters in something that even just approximates what the uniform is going to be, or the costume, I’m sorry, and take a couple of photos, that really can help with your… I was thinking back to when Betsy was promoting Coal Country months, months before, and they have this great photo of Chris Kendall. I think he was in overalls and he had… Did he have a banjo or something?

Toni Tresca (21:43)

Yeah, he was just holding an instrument, yeah.

Alex Miller (21:45)

Right,

right. And you know, that was, it just, it’s so much more impactful than just poster art. So if you can do it, do it. So those are the things we saw. I should also mention that this was a pretty weekend for the rest of the Onstage Colorado review crew. So look for reviews on the website for Pippin and family from Matthew Schultz. Kim Nicoletti was up in Silvathorne. Actually, she lives in Silvathorne. So she just walked across the street to see Margaritaville at Silco. And then

down at Colorado Springs Judith Sears saw Tuesdays with Maury at Funky and then Alice Kaderlin was out at Assassins at Miners Alley so we’ll have reviews of all those shows coming up.

Toni Tresca (22:30)

Do you have the review of Assassins yet? What you think? I’m so curious. I’m seeing that on Sunday.

Alex Miller (22:33)

I doubt I

doubt. But Alice doesn’t pull any punches. Yeah.

Toni Tresca (22:37)

Okay, I guess I just have to wait like everybody else. I know. That’s

why I asked you. I was like, she’ll tell it like it is.

Alex Miller (22:43)

Yeah.

Yeah. So, all right. Well, moving on, what’s in the old news bag, Tony? Or is it the mail bag? It’s a newsroom. The mail bag is kind of mushed into one. call it the news bag.

Toni Tresca (22:55)

Absolutely.

So big news on July 30th, the Scientific and Cultural Facilities District, also known as the SEFD, announced its new executive director, Andrea Albo, after a national executive search. ⁓ The board chair, Jackie Cooper-Melden, said in the announcement that Andrea’s focus on people-centered leadership and her considerable experience navigating complex organizations will be major assets as she takes the helm of the district up.

Andrea is a graduate of the University of Colorado at Denver, and she has over 27 years of experience in public service leadership, including serving as the deputy chief of staff and the senior vice president of culture and strategy at the Denver International Airport and the chief of staff at the Denver Sheriff’s Office. ⁓ So she said in the statement that she is very.

honored to have been selected. And it’s thanks to SCFD’s free days that I was exposed to arts and culture from a young age. I’m looking forward to working with the cultural community I call home to advance the accessibility of arts, culture, and science for all district residents. And she’s going to be starting that tenure as executive director in September. She’s following Deborah Geordi, who is going to remain in the organization as the district’s senior advisor on matters related to the reauthorization.

of the tax district that’s coming up in 2028.

Alex Miller (24:19)

Right. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And I hope we can talk to her after she’s settled in. Maybe we can even get her on the pod. But for those who aren’t familiar, the Scientific and Cultural Facilities District is a really interesting organization. It’s a collaboration of, think, what, seven counties? ⁓ And so everybody kind of, it’s almost, it’s similar to like a metro district or ⁓ a fire district where, you know, you might have several

counties pitching in to fund the fire departments that take, and this is just a same model only for culture and it’s fantastic source of ⁓ funding for a lot of arts organizations in the Denver metro area.

Toni Tresca (24:55)

And if you are somebody who is worried about federal funding going away, this is like a key in the fight against that because this is not come from federal funds. This is taken from that district’s sales tax revenue and is then distributed directly back to the organizations in this area. So it is a way to ensure that funding exists for these groups, even as it becomes more scarce at a federal level.

Alex Miller (25:21)

Right, right. Yeah, and you’ll often hear, you know, curtain speeches thanking SCFD among other sponsors and probably, you know, that’s who they’re talking about. And it’s definitely a big source of funding. What else?

Toni Tresca (25:33)

Absolutely.

In other new in other arts news, friend of the podcast and senior arts journalist at the Denver Gazette, John Moore broke the news that the 48th Denver Film Festival won’t be back at the AMC nine and 10 in November, which ends a three year arrangement in an increasingly tricky movie going landscape. As John quipped in the piece, attendance at movie theaters is presently being described as hovering somewhere between abysmal and apocalyptic.

after brutal first quarter numbers showed that box office revenue is down 11 % compared to the same period last year. So even though you’d think that these megaplexes like the AMC would be up in arms trying to get ⁓ these 10 winter days when the Denver Film Festival brings people there to come to the theater, AMC hiked the rental fee and basically priced itself out of the festival.

Alex Miller (26:28)

Ugh, why?

Toni Tresca (26:31)

Yeah, I truly have no idea, but according to a report that Denver Film declined to comment on, AMC was wanting up to three times more than in previous years. So now Denver Film is pivoting to just expanding offerings at the established venues that it works with, including the Ellie Cochran’s Opera House, the Denver Botanic Gardens, the MCA at the Holiday Theater, and of course, it’s home at the Sea Film Center.

Alex Miller (26:57)

All right, well, we wish them luck. you know, going back to the theater business cratering, you go to the movies a lot, probably more than anybody else I know, and you have that movie pass at AMC. Have you just kind of been noticing that when you go that there’s less and less people in the theater?

Toni Tresca (27:18)

Honestly, no, I really haven’t. If I’m be if, but I often go to opening weekends when I think that there is kind of an inflated amount of people in there in the screen in those screening rooms and whatnot. But yeah, I guess just anecdotally, I would say that I have not observed that kind of drop off in attendance. Theaters when I go are normally fairly busy, particularly after.

after the summer quarter in which there were quite a bit number of, I won’t say big, big blockbusters. We don’t have a ton of films hitting a billion dollars like in years past, but there were quite a few solid performers like F1, Superman, Jurassic World, Lilo and Stitch all coming out kind of back to back and rapid secession that seemed to add some juice back to the box office. I’m not sure, August, September, October are not looking quite as promising in terms of the movie offerings, but.

Yeah, guess just anecdotally, that has not been true for me.

Alex Miller (28:19)

Yeah, I know. seems like if you’ve, I mean, we always talk about theaters. If you’ve got empty seats, you’ve failed to some degree. If you’re a movie theater, what else can you do? I mean, I don’t know. Could you put a juggler on stage? I don’t know. You know, start inviting people in to do stuff. I don’t know. Maybe that sounds ridiculous, but I mean, you know, it’ll be sad because, you know, I think everybody likes to go to the movie theaters once in a while. I always like to go for the big, you know, the big action films like I saw Superman. I think that was the last one I saw.

But, you know, like the AMC 24 where I live, I mean, it has a lot of art films and smaller films that come through as well. you know, those big blockbusters also support some of the smaller theaters within the bigger complex. So, be sad if they start going away.

Toni Tresca (29:07)

Yeah, I mean, speaking of movie theaters and those possibly going away, up north in Estes Park, the owner of the historic park theater, Jenna McGregor, confirmed to me in an exclusive interview that I did for the Estes Valley Voice that, quote, it’s not sustainable. The film companies don’t care about the theaters any longer. They are literally driving us out of business.

Alex Miller (29:32)

Wow. Did she elaborate on that a little bit?

Toni Tresca (29:37)

Yeah, I mean, she pointed to the theatrical release window, which was once 120 days is now shrunk to 45 days, as well as streaming platforms dominating the cultural landscapes and kind of shifting audiences habits. And those are things that are happening at all movie theaters. Those are big systemic problems. But what is really specific to this theater, which is a one screen theater in a smaller rural community, is that studio licensing

have become more restrictive and expensive for independent theaters. So if they do get, and then if they do get these new films, studios are taking a massive cut of the tickets. So for instance, Jenna was trying to get the new Superman from Warner Brothers, but wasn’t able to do that because the theater required that she play the film, quote, clean, meaning play no other films on the screen for weeks.

Just you had to, in that one seat theater, you could only play Superman for, if she wanted an opening weekend, it would have been four weeks straight of just Superman. And then even after it had been out for four weeks, they still wouldn’t let her screen the film because she was also hosting live events sometimes on Friday and Saturday. So they weren’t able to get the full day on the weekends. So the studio just said it wasn’t worth it for them to let her have the film.

Alex Miller (30:30)

Wow.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, there’s always somebody with a spreadsheet looking at these things and from a financial perspective, maybe it makes sense for, you know, Warner Brothers or whatever, but it’s a bummer to hear that small communities are getting, you know, having, they’re losing hospitals, they’re losing, you know,

theaters, they’re losing movie theaters, ⁓ and ⁓ all kinds of things. it sucks. That’s one of the beauties of a small town is like, you know, there was always that movie theater in the middle, and maybe it was playing an old movie or something, but it was there.

Toni Tresca (31:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I mean, just adding insult to injury right now is if the park theater is able to get a new movies, the studio then takes an exorbitant cut. for on a thirteen dollar ticket, Jenna says that they keep three dollars and eighty cents of that. So and for high profile, so for high profile movies, that amounts to roughly sixty five percent of the gross or more if a film does better because then they’re the.

Alex Miller (31:45)

Man.

Toni Tresca (31:55)

There are bonuses that the studios get to take if the film does better nationally, not even at that specific theater. It’s about, it’s a national metric that just moves that percentage up. So just making it all the more expensive and unpredictable from a budgetary perspective to know even how much of the money you have to turn over. Like for instance, How to Train Your Dragon, the remake that came, they played it there. Originally they were being charged 61 % of the box office gross. However, it hit a new,

box office projection nationally. And so then they were like, actually, we need 62%. So send us another several hundred dollars months after you played this film. then it’s 61 % of the gross at that theater. And then it hit a new metric. So it went up to 62%. And then they sent her a new bill saying, you now owe us more money for that film that you played two months ago.

Alex Miller (32:34)

So it started at how much?

Dang. so.

Toni Tresca (32:53)

Yeah. And so in response,

it’s actually been doing something that you said in the last segment. She’s been hosting live events in the theater and she’s been running free repertory screenings of classic movies.

Alex Miller (32:59)

Ha ha ha!

How’s that going for them?

Toni Tresca (33:09)

Well, so far, meh. She said locals didn’t show up to these events, and it’s really too far away to attract people like us who don’t live in that mountain community. The free screenings have been working a little bit better, though, empowering increased concession sales, which is where they really make most of their money because the studios take so much of the box office gross. Still, Jenna told me that, quote, there is absolutely a possibility of the Park Theater going away.

you don’t go back, then you’ll lose it. And although she declined to comment on exactly how long she could keep the venue open, unless something changes, it seems like the country’s oldest single house theater in the entire country is probably going to be closing soon.

Alex Miller (33:54)

This one in Estes Park is the oldest?

Toni Tresca (33:57)

The oldest single screen theater in the country. That’s right.

Alex Miller (34:00)

Okay. Okay.

Wow. Crazy. Well, I don’t know. It’s certainly, it’s interesting to hear that the live events don’t work out so well. I think maybe if you could sustain it, but I mean, you’ve also got to mix in films. I think about some of those tiny theaters in these big megaplexes sitting empty or with one person in there. it’s like, I wonder if they started doing stuff like stupid pet tricks and jugglers and if they did it on a consistent basis.

If people would, I would go to that.

Toni Tresca (34:32)

I mean, I know that Alamo Drafthouse ⁓ experiments a little bit with that. They do live comedy and like other kinds of things in their spaces, including the theaters that they show. ⁓ But yeah, it’s really not a consistent effort, which I think kind of prevents people from really getting in the habit of going back.

Alex Miller (34:54)

Yeah, yep. Also in the mailbag, a couple of season announcements coming up. What do we have here?

Toni Tresca (35:01)

Yeah, so just wanted to get these on your radar in case you wanted to be in the room where it happens. The Aurora Fox Art Center is going to be announcing its 41st season as well as revealing its brand new auditorium seating on September 6th. Yeah, I know that’s a bit that’s a that is definitely cause for a woo. And then the following go ahead.

Alex Miller (35:17)

Woo!

Yeah, we, yeah.

I was just gonna say, so yeah, when I did interviewed Rich Cowden at the Fox earlier this year, and they had a sample of the chair that I was able to sit in. And you and I love to talk about, you know, uncomfortable seating in theaters, and the Fox’s chairs were very, very old. In fact, they had been taken from a movie theater, ⁓ you know, before then.

⁓ So it was high time, but it’s really expensive to do. it is kind of a big deal to do that. So kudos to the Fox. And yeah, I was gonna try and get out there ⁓ on that day to see how it all looks.

Toni Tresca (35:55)

Mm-hmm.

Definitely, I’m also planning to be at that. And then the following day, Denver’s Family Theater Company on September 7th will share its season at Brewability. Although I can’t share any additional information about the seasons publicly, I can say that these are sure to be fun events.

Alex Miller (36:26)

Okay, what’s Prewability? Is it a tap house or is it a brewery?

Toni Tresca (36:31)

Yes.

Yeah, it’s like a brewery.

Alex Miller (36:33)

Interesting.

Toni Tresca (36:35)

They do pizza as well as beer. It’s in Inglewood.

Alex Miller (36:39)

All right. And switching over to Arvada. ⁓ The Arvada Center has an announcement too, right?

Toni Tresca (36:45)

Yeah!

That’s right. They announced their creative team for the first production of its 50th season, The Mouse Trap. And boy, is it a doozy. The design team. Yeah. Yeah. The design team includes direction by artistic director, Lynn Collins, scenic design by Brian Mulgrave, who we are going to have on the podcast next week, I believe. ⁓ Costume design by Linda Morgan, who was previously the resident designer for BDT Stage, which closed last year.

Alex Miller (36:58)

And the cast, holy crap. Yeah.

Toni Tresca (37:18)

dialect consultant from friend of the podcast Jeffrey Parker and sound design by Max Silverman just to name a few and on the cast side Let me let me know if you recognize any of these names Alex Annie barber Jacob Dresh Rodney Lozano Emma messenger Colton Pratt Gareth Sachs and more

Alex Miller (37:32)

yeah, yeah. Whoa. Holy cow. Holy shit. No way.

That is a banger lineup. Yeah, great stuff there.

Toni Tresca (37:45)

Yeah, it’s true. It’s like they just went down and they were just like, hmm, who are some of the most high profile working actors in Colorado? Okay, well, let’s just cast them all.

Alex Miller (37:55)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they’re all, I’m not as familiar with Colton Pratt, but I really know the other ones really well. looking at the, Annie Barber was in the Arrata Center production of Dracula, a feminist revenge fantasy, which is the first, I…

at least the first show that I remember seeing her in. I was really impressed by her, so I’m excited to see her on stage again. Of course, Jacob Drash has been doing good work all over the place, and Emma was just in that Banger production of Steel Magnolia, as we saw, and Gareth Sax is one of those can’t-take-your-eyes-off-him actors when he’s on stage. Man, he has got amazing presence.

Toni Tresca (38:32)

Absolutely. So I’ve never seen the mousetrap before. I’m going to do my best to avoid spoilers on this because I know it’s a mystery and that’s kind of the whole point. But I definitely am planning to check this out. Even if not for work, I just want to see this for the design team and the cast.

Alex Miller (38:52)

The only spoiler I’ll give is someone dies. All right, well we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back, my conversation with Charlie Miller to talk about Sweet and Lucky for Denver Center’s Off-Center Immersive Production.

Toni Tresca (38:56)

Well now it’s all ruined for me Alex, why even bother going?

Alex Miller (39:15)

Well, I am here with Charlie Miller, the executive director and curator of DCPA Off Center. Hi, Charlie. Thanks for joining the On Stage Colorado podcast. Yeah, great to see you. So we are talking today about Sweet and Lucky Echo, which ⁓ is…

Charlie Miller (39:24)

Thanks for having me.

Alex Miller (39:32)

you know, kind of a reprise of sorts, a version of an earlier show that Off Center did, what was it, like 10 years ago?

Charlie Miller (39:41)

nine years ago in May of 2026. Sorry, 2016 is when it opened.

Alex Miller (39:46)

⁓

huh. Okay, great. And so I also noticed in the press release that this is Off Center’s 15th anniversary, ⁓ marking this production,

Charlie Miller (39:56)

Yeah, I co-founded OpCenter with Emily Tarquin in 2010. So this is our 15th year.

Alex Miller (40:04)

Right. So I don’t know how much this influenced the decision to bring back Sweet and Lucky, and this is Sweet and Lucky colon echo. Does this kind of thematically fit in with like kind of where Off Center is 15 years on?

Charlie Miller (40:19)

It does and it’s appropriate in a lot of ways. Sweet and Lucky, the original production was the first large scale immersive theater that Off Center did and really that Denver got to experience. And it was a huge hit and deeply resonant for so many audiences. We do these post show surveys of all of our ticket buyers for every production and literally every show we’ve done since Sweet and Lucky.

we’ve gotten multiple comments saying, like Theater of the Mind, but when are you gonna bring back Sweet and Lucky? ⁓ And so it’s a fan favorite. It’s one of my, it has a very special place in my heart as the first big project that we did. ⁓ And so ⁓ Zach Morris, who’s the creator and director and ⁓ co-artistic director of Third Rail Projects, he and I have been talking for many years about what might it mean to bring back Sweet and Lucky in some form.

Alex Miller (40:53)

Right.

Charlie Miller (41:20)

And revisiting the story or the themes, know, a lot has changed personally for each of us and societally in those nine years. And so we were really excited and Zach was really inspired to look at the subject matter and the show in a completely different light. And so while it shares the name and it shares a lot of ⁓ some similar moments,

And ⁓ it will certainly be familiar to some extent for the people who got to experience the original. Sweet and Lucky Echo is an entirely new piece. ⁓ And it’s one that’s being created now for this moment. So it’s exciting because it’s ⁓ simultaneously kind of revisiting the original, but ⁓ it’s the process of creating an entirely new work. And that’s really…

⁓ exciting creatively, I think for everyone involved.

Alex Miller (42:20)

Right. Great. Well, I’m sorry I didn’t see the first Suite and Lucky. Can you tell me a little bit about what that experience was like and where it was staged and how Echo is going to be sort of the next iteration?

Charlie Miller (42:33)

Sure. ⁓ So Sweet and Lucky in 2016 was, as I said, the first large-scale immersive theater experience that DCPA Off Center produced. ⁓ We commissioned Third Rail Projects because they were really the leading company doing this work nationally. And we felt like by combining the DCPA’s production capabilities and talents and frankly our

huge props warehouse and all the amazing resources that the DCPA has with the expertise and artistry of Third Rail that we could really create something unique. And we found a space on 42nd and Brighton Boulevard, which is now the Mission Ballroom. It was actually warehouses that were waiting to be torn down to build the Mission Ballroom. They were expansive, 16,000 square feet, filthy.

Alex Miller (43:23)

wow.

Charlie Miller (43:29)

and had no HVAC. ⁓ And so we cleaned them up and did our best to make it hospitable for actors and audiences alike, but it was rough out there, let me tell you. And Third Rail created this piece that started in, we called it a speakeasy antique store where nothing was for sale. And you were taken into a graveyard where it rained on you and you attended a funeral and then.

Alex Miller (43:30)

you

Charlie Miller (43:56)

moved through a dozen or so spaces where you got to experience moments from the life of this couple and sort of saw their relationship in key chapters or key moments and sort of piece together your own understanding of the story and who those characters were and what your relation to them was because in immersive theater, the audience has an active role in the story. You’re not just a passive viewer. so.

In the original, you got to play a memory game with an actor who had different cards and photographs that were duplicated. You ⁓ had a one-on-one experience with an actor where it was just you and the actor talking. And as I said, was deeply resonant for people. It was exploring themes about loss and grief and memory and love and how a relationship changes over time.

and how we make sense of what’s left behind. And all of those themes are carrying forward into the new production, Sweet and Lucky Echo, but it is conceived of and staged in a very different way. And there’s a huge amount of new content and only, you know, a couple of key moments from the original are being kind of echoed in the new version. ⁓ What Zach, the director,

has talked a lot about is that the original production was ⁓ a very solitary piece and a very individual piece. And in this moment, as he’s thinking about his own life and the world, ⁓ this Sweet and Lucky Echo is really about the power of the community and the village that we surround ourselves with and how we come together as a community to support someone who ⁓

is struggling and to ⁓ make sense of the world. And so ⁓ that key idea about the power of community is kind of ⁓ helping the vision manifest in some very specific ways that I don’t want to give away because part of the power of these immersive theater experiences is the element of surprise and being able to take you into a space that you do not expect.

and be able to take you through a story and on a journey that you don’t quite know what you’re gonna get, but you trust is gonna be transformative. so ⁓ the community plays a central role, which is you as the audience member supporting the ⁓ literal building of the world that you and that performer inhabit for the evening. ⁓ I think it’s really groundbreaking in the way it’s…

thinking about ⁓ the role of the audience, the way that the world is, the physical world of the show is created together. And I think it’s gonna be very, very unique. And I’m super excited in that it’s honoring the themes and the ideas and the emotion in the original, but telling a completely new story in a very, very different form.

Alex Miller (47:16)

Okay, great. Well, I understand you don’t want to give away anything, but can you give ⁓ listeners maybe just an idea of what the experience will be like? Are you kind of walking through hallways and going into rooms or what is it sort of like?

Charlie Miller (47:32)

You spend most of your time in a singular space that is changed and subdivided in different ways. And so the space that you walk in on, which is filled with cardboard boxes, transforms with your help right in front of your eyes. And so it is not

as it is not as ambulatory as the original was where you were literally moving through many different spaces. Here you are helping to transform a quite large space over the course of the evening. And so there will be a lot of surprises in that, but it’s not about the distance you travel. It’s about the ways that the space ⁓ changes and the way that your understanding and relationship to the people in the space.

changes as part of it. I’m sorry that I can’t, I just don’t want to give too many more specifics. ⁓ But, ⁓ you know, it’s literally helping kind of unpack these memories and ⁓ revisit the stories of a couple. So there is a couple at the center of it as well. And I think that the audience’s role is to really help us ⁓

Alex Miller (48:34)

I get it. I get it.

Charlie Miller (49:00)

bring these memories to life and make sense of them together.

Alex Miller (49:05)

Okay, well, ⁓ so 15 years on from starting ⁓ Off Center and nine years from the original ⁓ Sweet and Lucky, a lot has changed in the immersive world. You’ve learned a lot by running this operation and doing a lot of really interesting things from like the wild party at Stanley Marketplace to Theater of the Mind with David Byrne and those warehousy area and lots of stuff in between. What kind of, and certainly, ⁓ Zach has learned a lot.

What do you guys bring to this now that sort of your experience is really coming to bear and avoiding like any pitfalls or mistakes you might’ve made in the past?

Charlie Miller (49:45)

Well, you know, I’ve been reflecting on that because Sweet and Lucky, the original was kind of my first time really producing this type of work. And I was, I was still part time. mean, spending half my time as a video designer at the DCPA, which is how I started. And coming into my own as a producer and Emily Tarquin who co-founded Off Center with me, co-produced Sweet and Lucky. And then Emily went off.

after that to work at Actors Theatre of Louisville. So, ⁓ you know, I’ve been reflecting as we’re starting this new chapter about how much I’ve learned as a producer and how much I’ve learned about immersive through all the amazing work I’ve had the privilege of being a part of through Off Center. ⁓ You know, I think there’s a lot that you can learn to intuit about, you know,

seeing it through the audience’s perspective and anticipating what might confuse an audience or how to effectively guide an audience through a different type of experience and how to welcome them into a space and into a story in a way that’s going to be clear and kind and thoughtful and also set them up for success inside of the show. ⁓ And with every project, there’s been a whole new set of

challenges and unexpected things that you learn along the way, some of which will not be relevant this time around. know, like with Camp Christmas and Theater of the Mind and Infinite and Monopoly, we got really good at timed entry tickets. ⁓ And there’s a whole lot of nuance there that we knew nothing about when we first started it. Sweet and Lucky Echo is one performance per night with one audience that all arrives at the same time.

And it’s like, this is so easy compared to timed entry. But now we’ve got, you know, 200 people in a lobby that are all coming at once, which is all other set of challenge that we haven’t had to deal with recently. so ⁓ it’s really, you know, the reason I love this work is that each production is completely different. ⁓ And there’s certainly the opportunity to build on experience gained and you also have to come at it fresh and

Alex Miller (51:42)

Yeah, I bet.

Charlie Miller (52:09)

be prepared for whatever the needs of the project are and whatever the artistic vision is and how you can leverage the tools and resources to support that vision.

Alex Miller (52:21)

Speaking of artistic vision, did want to ask you, like, how do you balance the business considerations of producing these works, which, you know, can be kind of spendy and logistically complex. I imagine there’s a lot of, I mean, a million choices and decisions you’ve got to make every day. What does that look like on the ground?

Charlie Miller (52:38)

It’s really hard. We always want to honor the artists and give them as much support financially and physically as possible to be able to achieve their vision. And I think one of the inherent challenges in immersive work is that intimacy is what makes it special. And that is expensive to have a…

a small group of audiences with one actor. ⁓ If you add more audiences, you need more actors. And so there aren’t really economies of scale that make it more efficient. And it’s certainly been something that is at play in this new production. You know, the original Sweet and Lucky had 72 audience members per night, and it took about 25 people to run that show. And we had a really awesome grant from the Wallace Foundation that helped

⁓ subsidize the production, but the way that costs have increased in nine years, even if we wanted to redo that version, we couldn’t afford it today. ⁓ And so certainly part of the consideration is how do we get more audiences and have this be an experience that can accommodate a larger group of people, which again, financially makes a lot more sense.

but still make it special and intimate and unique at the same time. And Zach Morris, the lead director and creator, he’s so brilliant about how to move actors around and how to create these intimate moments and then these more grand group moments. And so I think that if you could see the spreadsheets behind the art, it’s really incredible to see how thoughtfully

the directing team has dissected literally every minute of the show and knowing where each actor is and who they’re interacting with and how that group of audience members that’s in that moment are taken care of in the next moment and considering each individual audience member’s journey through that is really spectacular.

Alex Miller (54:53)

Yeah, I’m sure that’s just a logistical, huge logistical challenge. So you were talking about the first Sweet and Lucky was in this stinky, dirty old warehouse. Now you’ve got this Broadway Park venue at 407 South Broadway. That’s, I don’t know if it’s a permanent home, but sort of a place you can do multiple productions. So can you tell me a little bit about that?

Charlie Miller (54:58)

It is.

Yeah, sadly, it’s not a permanent home. ⁓ This is just off of Alameda and Broadway. It’s a former Ace Hardware, Sally Beauty, and Dollar Tree, ⁓ which they call medium box retail, apparently. ⁓ The ceilings aren’t super high. They’re 12 feet, which, you know, compared to where we were originally, which had like 20 plus feet foot ceilings, ⁓ it’s just a different feel. ⁓

Alex Miller (55:31)

Okay.

Charlie Miller (55:45)

But it’s got an amazing infrastructure. It’s got great restrooms, both for the backstage team and for the audience, which has been a challenge. I don’t know if you’ll recall in Theater of the Mind, we didn’t have audience bathrooms, so we had to bring in bathroom trailers out front. It has been really challenging to find venues that have the unique mix of infrastructure that we need to support these big immersive projects. And we really lucked out here to find a space that could be

Alex Miller (55:59)

Right?

Charlie Miller (56:14)

relatively easily modified to meet our needs. And we’ve built out, you know, the infrastructure for a bar. So we have a bar with running water, which we’ve never had in any other location. And a really comfortable front of house space. We’ve got, you know, nice facilities that we set up for dressing rooms and a green room backstage. And most importantly, expansive ⁓ performance space that we’re able to fill with our sets and props.

and everything. ⁓ And obviously HVAC, which after the original Sweet and Lucky is a non-negotiable. And, you know, there’s things that people don’t think about, like egress paths for fire. You know, does it have enough exits that audiences can quickly have two points of egress from wherever they are in the building? And sprinklers and fire life safety. There’s a whole host of things that, you know, we have to consider and invest money in to make these the space

Alex Miller (56:49)

you

Charlie Miller (57:14)

functional for our needs and safe, you know, by the city standards. And so ⁓ we’ve been lucky in that we got a two year lease on this space. ⁓ And so we were able to do Monopoly Lifesize and now we’re doing Sweet and Lucky Echo out of it, which just, it’s the first time we’ve done multiple projects. Well, I guess we sort of did it at the hangar too, but where we’ve taken over a space quite like this and been able to do multiple projects creates a lot of efficiencies for our team.

⁓ And it’s a huge luxury. And also it’s a great location. There’s tons of free parking out front. ⁓ It’s very accessible by public transit. So we love the location. This building is under contract and will eventually be redeveloped into a multi-unit housing, you know, apartment building, like there are some in our direct vicinity here. ⁓

And so we’re, we were able to get a friendly deal with our landlord because they were sort of waiting for this building to close. And that takes multiple years in real estate plans. So ⁓ our lease ends ⁓ this year and, or sorry, it ends at the end of this fiscal year for the DCPA. so ⁓ TBD, whether we can get another show out of it or not.

but we’re just thrilled to be in this space again and given how comfortable it is and how well equipped it is for our needs.

Alex Miller (58:50)

huh. Okay. I wanted to ask since, you know, we were talking about how immersive theater has become more of a thing, you know, in the last decade or so, does that, do you see in some of the more recent shows you’ve done, is the audience just a little more like ⁓ less surprised or more, more kind of game for that kind of experience than they might’ve been in the past?

Charlie Miller (59:12)

⁓ Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because immersive can mean a lot of things. So I think one of the challenges we face is that, you know, when we set immersive theater in 2016, I mean, most people hadn’t heard of what that meant. Some people knew what immersive meant, but now there’s been such a huge range of things that call themselves immersive that it’s hard. It can be challenging at times to sort of say,

Yeah, but this one is, you know, of a scale and of a quality that is different from some of the other options that you might have. Or some of, you know, there’s a lot of big IP intellectual property that’s like creating experiences. The squid games experience is in New York and Minecraft was in Dallas. And so, and you know, we did Monopoly too, which is a big IP. And so.

You know, it’s a, there’s a lot of options out there and how do we differentiate what we’re doing? And, you know, I think audiences have come to ⁓ understand and love what Off Center has to offer. And so I think when it’s an Off Center production, we do have a core group of really enthusiastic people who’ve come along the ride with us and know whatever we do is, it will be interesting and it’s worth checking out. ⁓

But I do think that the diversity of what people consider to be immersive and, you know, the prevalence of quote unquote immersive things in our entertainment ecosystem now ⁓ have meant that audiences are maybe a little bit less able to be surprised than they were nine years ago. And they certainly come in with a level of understanding or expectations that

can be helpful and also can be something that you have to kind of challenge right off the bat so that they don’t come in thinking they’re getting something that they’re not.

Alex Miller (1:01:19)

All right, well, Sweet and Lucky Echo, it’s a new immersive theater work by Zach Morris and Third Rail Projects ⁓ that’s being hosted by Denver Center Off Center. So this is gonna be ⁓ running August 13th through October 5th at the Broadway Park Building at 407 South Broadway. So definitely wanna probably get out there and check that out. It sounds like it’s gonna be a really, really interesting experience for a lot of people. So.

Charlie Miller with ⁓ Denver Center Off Center. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with us and best of luck breaking legs and all that with this production.

Charlie Miller (1:01:54)

Thanks so much and you can get your tickets at denvercenter.org. So we hope you’ll check it out.

Toni Tresca (1:02:04)

That was a fun conversation. It’s always great to hear from Charlie about a work like this, particularly because Sweet and Lucky was so critical to the direction that the organization has taken in the last nine years. It’s really kind of helped refine their focus on immersive work.

Alex Miller (1:02:22)

Yeah, absolutely. And it was interesting to hear him talk about just how pivotal that was. And also just about how they were trying to find their feet. Like, what is this thing called off-center? And trying different things and kind of on. mean, all of their productions are wildly different, but they share some genetic material between them or a thread in the kinds of stuff they do. So looking forward to checking that out.

Toni Tresca (1:02:49)

Me too. Well, that brings us to the end of our show for this week. Alex, what’s up on the podcast next week?

Alex Miller (1:02:57)

Well, continuing our unofficial behind the scenes series, I have an interview coming up with sound designer Jason Ducat. Or Duckett, I’m not sure how you pronounce this last name. And as you mentioned, we’re also going to be interviewing Brian Mulgrave. So I think it’ll be Jason and then Brian. So some of behind the scenes stuff. So he’s done sound for Dracula and Noises Off at the Arvada Center, Coal Country at the aforementioned Betsy.

He did the mousetrap at Lone Tree Arts Center, did the minutes at Curious Theater Company. he’s definitely one of those busy, busy sound designers in Colorado. So looking forward to talking with him about that. And then, yeah, we’ll talk to Brian Mulligrave, who we always crow about because his scenic designs kind of sort ⁓ of stand at the top of what anybody else is doing in Colorado. They’re always just like, holy cow, ⁓ great stuff that he does.

Toni Tresca (1:03:52)

Yeah, and he’s really, he can design with a massive budget for stuff like the Arvada Center, or he can do something small and more intimate, like when he does work with Platte Valley.

Alex Miller (1:04:02)

Right, for sure.

Toni Tresca (1:04:05)

And I guess this means that in order to properly continue our behind the scenes series, we gotta get a lighting designer on here next.

Alex Miller (1:04:12)

Absolutely, yeah, I’d love to talk to somebody so we’ll pursue that.

Toni Tresca (1:04:17)

I was actually talking to a lighting designer, Emily Maddox, who was the designer of Pippin when I was there. She mentioned that she is a listener of this very podcast. So Emily, you’re listening right now, consider this a open invitation to hop on the show with us.

Alex Miller (1:04:35)

Absolutely, let’s chat.

Toni Tresca (1:04:39)

So if you want to stay up to date on what’s going on in theaters across the state, be sure to subscribe to the OnStage Colorado newsletter, which comes out pretty much every Thursday.

Alex Miller (1:04:49)

Yeah, yep, definitely. always have the latest reviews. We’ve got, we’ve just started putting on like the next week of shows ⁓ from the calendar on there. So you can just kind of get a quick snapshot of what’s coming up. ⁓ And then of course, any other stuff that we have, like we always have our links to our latest podcast and any news. So, so, all right, well, that’s it for this week. Thanks so much for listening. I’m Alex Miller.

Toni Tresca (1:05:14)

And I’m Tony Tresca and we’ll see you at the show.